The Submissive Male Construct and Nice Guys

Have I mentioned that I absolutely loved the X Files? I still do actually and own all nine seasons on DVD. I even have a reproduction of the poster from Fox Mulder’s basement office, you know the “I Want to Believe” one which I have framed and mounted above my writing desk. Actually I don’t know whether extra-terrestrial life is out there. I don’t spend much time speculating on that and that isn’t the reason I like the poster so much. It has more to do with the words because there is so much about life where I find myself saying, “I want to believe.” One thing I want to believe is that there is “out there” a confident, dominant woman I will find someday who wants to have a loving committed relationship with a submissive guy just like me.

My feelings about that seem to vacillate sometimes day to day. Sometimes like Mulder and his belief that the truth was always out there, I feel she is surely out there and someday I’ll find her. On other days more like Dana Scully, I find myself cast in the role of the skeptic. A few days ago I read a post on the blog of another submissive man. Someone I have never met and don’t actually “know” but someone who after following his blog for quite a while now, I find I really like and identify with. He too is feeling a bit skeptical these days about ever finding “the one” for the relationship he wants so desperately. I tend to emphasize, maybe a little too much with people I like and so I think I’ve been in a bit of a funk since reading his post and once again find myself feeling a little skeptical.

Please bear with me as I am indulging in a follow up of sorts to the piece I posted yesterday. I mentioned in that essay that I find myself wondering what kind of man a woman really wants. And I mentioned that I have read comments from women who state they would never entertain the idea of having a relationship with a submissive man. I actually even talked with a woman recently who expressed that same sentiment. First of all, she does not characterize herself as being a dominant female and so I won’t label her as such, but still what she said I think is important to consider as a submissive man. She did use the term “submissive" guys in her opinions but also used it interchangeable with another term we hear tossed about which often has a somewhat negative connotation these days, “nice" guys. It was pretty obvious, at least to me that she considered submissive men and nice guys to be pretty much one and the same.

Her reasons for having no interest in dating or having a relationship with submissive guys were based on her perceptions of what submissive men were like. She characterized them as follows; they exude insecurity and insecurity isn’t sexy, it’s a turnoff, they are so anxious to be liked and loved that they do things for other people to gain acceptance and attention, rather than for simply the pleasure of giving. You never know whether they really like you for who you are or if they are attracted to you just because you actually paid some kind of attention to them. They are too clingy and self-abasing. They try to buy your affections with presents and fancy things. They think they know about romance, but their timing is all wrong, and they either come on too strong or they are too shy and unassertive. They are so desperate to please that they put aside their own needs, and instead of just appreciating you they worship you and put you on a pedestal. They rarely speak up when something bothers them.

This woman does not know I self-identify as a submissive man and to me I didn’t feel she perceived me as one based on her candid comments. She is a nice person whom I like and I don’t think she would purposely say things to me that she thought would be hurtful. At least to me that seems to make a case for her perceptions of what submissive men are like as being totally off base. Sure it is my own self perception of myself that I base it on, but I don’t see much of anything she had to say as describing me. I’m not insecure but on the contrary consider myself to be a very confident person, just not in an ego-inflated, arrogant jerk kind of way. I do give a lot to women I’m in a relationship with both intangibly and tangibly but not out of some desperate need for affection or acceptance but simply because it brings me pleasure and is one of the ways I show affection. Is generosity something one should feel the need to apologize for? I don’t consider myself the least bit clingy. From time to time I feel the need for personal space and some alone time to re-charge my batteries, so certainly I understand a woman needs the same thing and I’d never deny her that. Submissive yes, that is part of my personality and nature, but I am neither shy nor unassertive. I don’t submit to everyone, I only want to submit to that special someone. I’m not self-abasing, but neither am I prideful. I think I have a very positive self-image and have healthy self-esteem. Being submissive does not equate with me with feelings of worthlessness and I’m not seeking to be debased or abused in a relationship. I think I have a good sense of romance and I enjoy being romantic. I have no problem expressing my feelings and emotions and have no hesitation about speaking up if something isn’t feeling right to me about a relationship. I am often the first one to speak up and call attention to it. Not in a complaining way but simply as a means of resolving an issue in a fast and positive way. Yes, it is important for me to please a woman I love, but I wouldn’t characterize it as being desperate to please. I do plead guilty to the following charges. I am more than willing to put aside my own needs in situations where I feel that is needed to please her. That to me is simply an expression of selflessness in a relationship rather than selfishness. Is that a bad thing? And yes, I do tend to place women I love on a pedestal and I do I suppose worship them, but it is simply that I want to make them feel special and appreciated. Yes, I’m submissive and yes, I’m a nice guy. Guilty as charged. But I just don’t see how that makes me boring even though it does perhaps make me a bit predictable.

Ever watch the series Friends? If so, do you remember the episode where I think it was Alec Baldwin who played Phoebe's boyfriend? Yes, that character was a bit over the top with niceness and I could see why a woman wouldn’t want a guy like that. That was too nice. Nice to the extreme and not something I think would be attractive because it is boring and because of the complete absence of any aggressiveness or edge. But I just don’t see myself at all in that way. I’m nice, I’m submissive but I do have some backbone and I don’t let people walk all over me. I can occasionally be a “bad” boy. I know how to say no sometimes. I can raise my voice and be heard. I can say erotic and sexy things at appropriate times. I can smack her ass and pull her hair during sex if that is something I know she enjoys. I have plenty of interests in guy things and other things beyond a relationship and actually I like my life and find plenty of personal fulfillment even when I’m not in one. I am a man after all and I know how to behave as one in positive ways.

There is a common saying, “nice guys finish last.” Equating “nice” with “submissive” I suppose there is that same old discrepancy in play between women's stated preferences and their actual choices in men. They may say that they want nice guys, but really seem to go for men who are jerks, or the proverbial bad boys in the end. Some people say that is because women believe society expects them to, they claim they want a nice guy but what they really want is the challenge that comes with having a relationship with the not-so-nice guy. When faced with a choice between a nice guy, a submissive guy and an unkind, insensitive, emotionally-closed, “controlling” type man they often seem to reject the nice guy in favor of his more macho competitor.

There is of course a good deal of ambiguity in the submissive man construct. Different women have different opinions and interpretations and the term “submissive man” means different things depending on the particular woman asked to define it. Sometimes I meet women who really seem to understand and appreciate submissive men and they often offer very flattering perceptions, characterizing them as committed, caring, and respectful of women. Other women however, have a different view and offer a more negative perception; submissive men are boring, lacking in confidence and therefore unattractive as a potential relationship or sexual partner. Interestingly, the same ambiguity exists when it comes to women’s perceptions of the bad boy type. Some describe them as confident, attractive, sexy, and exciting while other women view them as manipulative, unfaithful, disrespectful of women, and interested only in sex.

For all of our supposed faults, submissive guys are more than simply the kind of guy willing to endure hours of whining and bitching about what assholes guys are, while disproving the very point. More than just the kind of guys willing to provide a shoulder to lean on when needed, to hold open doors and give reassuring pats on the back and sit patiently outside the changing room at department stores. More than simply the kind of guys who will obligingly reiterate how cute, beautiful, smart, funny and sexy their female partners are at the appropriate moment because they know most girls want to hear those things. We are aware when a woman is fishing for compliments but give them out anyway because we know it is important. We are also the kind of guys that have laid-back attitudes, honest concern for women and that respect a woman in every facet, from her privacy to her opinions to her clothing style. I sometimes feel we are overlooked, underestimated, and unappreciated and sometimes don’t get credit where credit is due. We are boyfriend material but somehow don’t always end up being boyfriends. And dare I say it? Perhaps more disturbing, we don’t seem to get laid as often as we should.

Perhaps we as submissive men need to do more by putting ourselves out there to demonstrate the real submissive man construct. Perhaps we might then earn more credibility with the women in society. I still find myself hopeful that there is a dominant confident, woman out there or perhaps even one waiting to emerge, whose dominance will be drawn out by the submission I’m willing and ready to offer. Ladies I hope I have offered you a more truthful construct of the submissive man and that you will understand that indeed “the truth is out there.” As for me, “I want to believe” and hope I always will.

The Submissive Knight

Recently I received this response to post I made on another blog from a dominant women who I have come to develop great respect and admiration for. I am using her response here to make a point or two but since I haven’t asked her permission in advance I am not going to reveal the person or the blog but simply reproduce her comments here…

“I want to thank Joe for posting and the wonderful well thought out contribution to the blog. He is a smart and very strong willed man who has freely given himself to the women in his life. As a girl you can't help but to think what would it be like to be held in his strong arms. I am sure that he knows how to please his Mistress on many levels. As a submissive man he is more of the knight than the slave. If it were not for wanting to please the female in his life, I have a feeling he could actually be very dominant. I have a feeling Joe is dominant with other men.”

Actually, I can’t stress enough how amazingly insightful I find this woman to be because she so clearly sensed, perhaps intuitively my nature from simply a few paragraphs of prose that I contributed to a topic under discussion. I do like to think I am somewhat intelligent but not in a prideful sort of way. I spent a good deal of money obtaining what I believe was a quality education from a respected institution of higher learning. Additionally, due to my age I have a good bit of life experience from which to draw and I like to think I’ve learned some valuable lessons along the way. And she was right on target with her assumption that I do tend to be quite dominant in the way I relate to other people in my public life and have always seemed to gravitate towards positions of employment where I am cast in a very dominant role. I like to think I have some natural abilities as a leader and the U. S. Army did expend a good deal of time and resources polishing me into a tactically and technically proficient combat unit leader. In fact since “submissive” has a rather negative, milk toast connotation for members of society in general, I seriously doubt that you would be able to find anyone who knows me in a public sense that would characterize me as submissive. Finally she clearly observed it seemed, my willingness and sincere desire to submit in my private intimate relationships to a strong, dominant female personality. I see the submissive part of my nature not so much as defining me as a person but more so as making a positive contribution to the whole. And her opinion that she considered me more of a knight than a slave with respect to my submissive expression is something that after giving it considerable thought, I found myself in agreement with.

Submissive men come from all walks of life, from every stripe and flavor. Submission cuts across all boundaries or race, ethnicity, age and sexual orientation. While I may consider myself to be of the “knightly” bent, I hasten to add that in no way do I consider this superior in any sense to those submissive men who find it meaningful and choose to offer their submission in a different way. Some submissive men are as I characterize myself, very masculine in the traditional sense and quite comfortable and secure in their masculinity. Others are softer, even effeminate to a degree and I think that has just as much value because they are being the person they are and expressing themselves as real. That is great because to me diversity is the one thing that makes life such an interesting journey. It is also convenient because I have met just as many authentic dominant women who prefer the softer, less overtly male, more effeminate type of submissive man as those I have met who have a preference for the more typically masculine type. Definitely both types of submissive men are needed and should be valued. Obviously, I have very much simplified this by drawing a comparison between two extremes, because along the full submissive male continuum, one would find lots of varied personalities and blends of the two extremes I have compared.

To me there is nothing wrong with being masculine, and I do in fact strongly self-identity myself that way. I simply choose to depart from the traditional patriarchal society definition of what it means to be and act as a man. I do not at all and in fact condemn any notion that being male means that I am superior to women by virtue of the fact that nature has arbitrarily chosen to bestow me with a penis between my legs, that I should dominate women, that I should sexually objectify women, that I should treat women rudely or disrespectfully, or that I should not take them and their opinions seriously. In fact I have always revered, respected and admired females and the important contributions they make to society which I myself have been blessed to benefit from. I do not submit to every female, not even to ever dominant female, yet I honor and defer to each and every one of them. As a male of straight sexual orientation it is quite normal and natural that I find the female body attractive and exciting but that does not mean I should use that as an excuse to view the female body as an object which serves only the singular purpose of an ends to a means of my personal sexual gratification. There is so much more to a woman than that. Considering my mother, my sisters, my daughters and my close female friends, I could not hope to even come close to making the kind of positive impact and contributions to the world that they make routinely as women.

Submission to me is a means by which I can express both in tangible and intangible ways my honest and sincere admiration and respect for the female sex. A strong, dominant female both in and out of the bedroom is my ideal as the quintessential intimate relationship partner. Serving a dominant female both sexually and non-sexually and pleasing her in exactly the way she wants to be pleased, provides me with indescribably joy, pleasure and meaning.

Yes, as I think of it, I do see the rightness of the analogy between the knight and the submissive man. Consider this excerpt from the Charge Given to the Arthurian Knights and see if you, as I do, can easily pick out the similarities.

“God make you a good man and fail not of beauty. The Round Table was founded in patience, humility, and meekness. Thou art never to do outrageousity, nor murder, and always to flee treason, by no means to be cruel, and always to do ladies, damsels, and gentle women succor. Also, to take no battles in a wrongful quarrel for no law nor for no world's goods.

Thou shouldst be for all ladies and fight for their quarrels, and ever be courteous and never refuse mercy to him that asketh mercy, for a knight that is courteous and kind and gentle has favor in every place. Thou shouldst never hold a lady or gentle woman against her will.

Thou must keep thy word to all and not be feeble of good believeth and faith. Right must be defended against might and distress must be protected. Thou must know good from evil and the vain glory of the world, because great pride and bobauce maketh great sorrow. Should anyone require ye of any quest so that it is not to thy shame, thou shouldst fulfill the desire.

Thou shouldst not fail in these things: charity, abstinence and truth. Therefore be a good knight and so I pray to God so ye may be…”

The knights of old were skilled in the art of falconry, adept at arms, fearless in battle, generous and loyal, yet even for them the woman was both predictor and precipitator of the knight's ultimate fulfillment. The good knight accepted that without question and yielded to it immediately; recognizing his rite of passage into manhood was afforded him only by a woman. The same it seems to me is true of the submissive man as our greatest and highest potential as a man can only be realized through obedient submission to a dominant female.